Zabmin abuse

[Fusion365 74]

 

Template

Your in game name: Rear Admiral Fusion

The accused staff member's in game name, Steam profile link or Steam ID (http://steamidfinder.com/) STEAM_0:63581685

What they had done (Please give a detailed description as to what happened): the staff member committed no clip abuse. He nocliped into an area he is not meant to be.(Rear Admirals office) which he is no allowed to be. as well as breaking immersions of others by talking whilst in noclip breaking the in charcter situations

Evidence https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/853036623528198144/861702206235344896/Garrys_Mod_2021.07.05_-_20.50.24.04.DVR_Trim.mp4

At 00:14 you can see the voice of zab being spoken above the desk

 

 

[Bobby Bands 68]

+1
One of the first things you're taught as staff is not to noclip into areas you shouldn't which as seen in the clip is something that he did. No excuse for it really.

[Klavigar 34]

Neutral

Changed to neutral after reading some replayes, I mean if Zab was there because of Bobby Bands doing something not really allowed then sure, but still until we get Zab side of the matter I am gonna keep this neutral.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Klavigar

[Fusion365 74]

29 minutes ago, Jeff said:

He did nothing other then noclip spectate you guys whilst cloaked, his name was zab on duty at the time.

He no clipped into an area which he is not allowed to be anywhere near and spectated it. Which is strictly against the staff rules

[Nathan 72]

+1 

I mean I was the one that got the recording. However this is still a clear breach of the staff guidelines. His name may have been Zab On Duty, however this point is irrelevant as you should not be using your staff powers in order to see into areas or listen into things which you are not meant to know about, even as a SOD with the expection of a claim which no of us made.

[Key 66]

Neutral
From what I've herd of the situation I think there's more to it than just this clip which isn't explained at all, like how apparently Zab and Bobby was arguing about something before hand, would also like to see Zab's side as well.
 

49 minutes ago, Jeff said:

-1 

He did nothing other then noclip spectate you guys whilst cloaked, his name was zab on duty at the time.

you claim he spoke and broke your "immersions" but when he spoke he was replying to people saying "someones noclipping in here whos noclipping". If you want to claim this is abuse because he ruined your immersion then everyone who spoke to him whilst he was cloaked and noclipped should be warned for FailRP also.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Fusion365 said:

He no clipped into an area which he is not allowed to be anywhere near and spectated it. Which is strictly against the staff rules

Also to add more on to this people was clearly treating the situation as OOC in this clip by shouting things such as "who's noclipping in here!" and saying things like "did you clip it bobby?" and "It's Zab" before he's even said anything just makes me think there's more to this that's just not being said at all.
1.4.2 - On this server you must remain in character at all times unless you are in an OOC situation or in OOC areas such as the bar.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Key
Typo + added more

[Nathan 72]

9 minutes ago, Key said:

 

 

Also to add more on to this people was clearly treating the situation as OOC in this clip by shouting things such as "who's noclipping in here!" and saying things like "did you clip it bobby?" and "It's Zab" before he's even said anything just makes me think there's more to this that's just not being said at all.

To answer your query here. The reason that we initially knew that it was Zab due to him noclipping into the brig a few moments before this situation when we took Force and him then getting rude, which we have pushed to the side.

[Hogus 76]

Neutral
Just going to add a detail that probably happened prior to this clip being taken. As a CG I was called by HMO Bobby Bands to come to the BB elevator where I had noticed that RRD Rez had been cuffed into the elevator wall which in itself was confusing to me, I tried to ask around what to do with him but I did not get any real response from battalion or from Rez himself other than his requests to be freed. I brought him to brig to decide what to do and, well release him as I had no idea what was going on. Soon after Bobby Bands had cuffed me  in brig, had proceeded to blindfold me and had done an RP action Injects drugs that make you forget prior moments (or well something along those lines), which could be considered power gaming really. Zab had most likely spectated this in noclip and  got out of noclip to comment the situation that happened. I don't have any solid video proof however Zab himself can confirm this alongside a few CG that happened to be there. 
I think this is what Zab and Bobby were arguing about as Key claims. 

[Henk - DutchDavin 45]

Neutral
Zab could be in the wrong here but how ever i dont know both sides. i have spoken to zab a few times and he is a kind responsible guy. so i would like to see zab's side of the story.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Henk - DutchDavin

[Zab 25]

Okay, so here is my side of the story.

At first i was watching some CG stungun each other near the hangars. After talking to them i went to the brig to find a higher up. Found a CG helping a RRD in cuffs. So then the rest of the RRD show up and they take a AFK Force to the battalion offices for unknown reasons to me. I followed them to see what they were doing.  The RA was not present in the office and i did not see him giving you permission to be there, so u wondered why they were there. (This is nothing bad because it's literally my job, they are not Admiralty or battalion.)  They also knew i was there. (this is why they all say it's Zab in the clip.) They were just doing RP so i left. A little bit later i did come back as shown in the clip because a CG was in my channel and was wondering what was going on with force. i flew in about when the last guy said, there is someone no-clipping in here. i did not hear the other people say it. They guessed i was there because i let them know the first time i was there, but i don't know who and or if someone else was no-clipping in there before i came back.  But again i let me presence be known, and i left again. 
If you decide to do your RP, (that you have a perfectly good medbay for) in a RA's office then you can expect people to question what is going on.
So long story short, yes i was there for 2 short moments. Was i there to listen to your conversation, no. I was there the first time because i thought it was weird you took a AFK person into the RA's office and stuck around for a few or seconds because one of you was pointing a gun at him. And the second time i was there is because a CG member was asking about the location of his EXO.
I was never there to spy on a secret or admirals meeting or something, thats what the rule is for. Or else it would mean that anyone can go into that office and be save from staff because we can't go in there.

Oh two more things. If you think i broke any rule, why don't come to me to talk about it? i have played this server with many of you for a long time. I am always open for a friendly discussion on what can or can't happen. 

Also note that the guy making this report was not present for any of this. So he only knows what he has heard from others. So why not come and ask? i sent you a message with the shorter version of this story on discord last night. No response. Kind of a shame.

[Hazard 25]

-1
I had the same question why is fusion doing admin abuse report without being ingame or in the area where it happened and it doesnt make sense why RRD just went into RA office without any visible perms, being friends with RA or any other high ranking person doesnt mean you can enter CL5-6 areas at any point unless given permission IG.

And now seeing what Zab said makes perfect sense why he was there nocliping and clearly didnt have any intention to spy.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Hazard

[Mike Hawt 14]

Neutral

I wasn't there and the story is a bit scuffed tbh. I don't think Zab deserves a punishment, mby just a talking to? He had a decent reason to follow RRD the first time around and a pretty bad one to return the second time. In the future you should not go to areas you are not allowed in unless someone asks for you to be there (like Force in this case).

Edited July 6, 2021 by Bronze

[Bobby Bands 68]

53 minutes ago, Zab said:

At first i was watching some CG stungun each other near the hangars. After talking to them i went to the brig to find a higher up. Found a CG helping a RRD in cuffs. So then the rest of the RRD show up and they take a AFK Force to the battalion offices for unknown reasons to me. I followed them to see what they were doing.  The RA was not present in the office and i did not see him giving you permission to be there, so u wondered why they were there. (This is nothing bad because it's literally my job, they are not Admiralty or battalion.) 

While yes you can say that you were wondering why we were up there, there's no problem with that, but if you want to know why ask in OOC perspective such as messaging Fusion on TS or discord asking him why RRD are using his office. Yes you may be an SCO but that doesn't give you unlimited access to the BB or the RAs office and as such noclipping inside the RAs office is abuse of your staffing powers. When you later say that a CG member was wondering what was happening with their EXO, yet again there is no need for you to noclip into an area that you don't have access to. If a CG member wants to know they can use the IC radio comms system that everyone has access to and we could of told them. As RC and RRD in the past, I've been to BB many times for different reasons, that doesn't give any random staff member the permission to noclip into that area to see what's going on.

In response to Hazard, yes we did have the RAs permission to be in there, right before map switch from Vanqour to Rishimoon, he told us over the IC radio comms to report to his office on map switch alongside the fact we were in teamspeak with him, with the channel marked as IC talking to him.

[Bobby Bands 68]

2 hours ago, Key said:

From what I've herd of the situation I think there's more to it than just this clip which isn't explained at all, like how apparently Zab and Bobby was arguing about something before hand, would also like to see Zab's side as well.

For clarification, we weren't arguing, all that happened was Zab was spectating a situation in the brig and while doing so in noclip said "thats powergaming" and then later on saying "fuck RRD" . At no stage did we talk/argue about the situation as I didn't respond to him in game, as if he had a problem with what we were doing he could of TPd me to a sit to discuss it there.

[ethan 86]

I am only replying to this post, not as in spite of Zab or anything like that, just to clear some misconceptions up.

Firstly, the area of the Rear Admiral's Office is CL6 meaning that Zab shouldnt be there in noclip, that is a clear violation of admin abuse no matter how you look at it.

Secondly, it doesn't matter what happened beforehand or whatever, if you wanted to watch as a SCO then you should have either entered the office as your SCO job not gone into noclip as a cadet.

Third, It doesnt not matter if the RRD members were speaking OOC, and from what I know everything ingame was IC up until the point were Dicky asked "is there someone in noclip?" which is obviously OOC, Zab shouldnt have broke immersion and said "Yes I am here." or whatever he said, mostly all staff members would have immediately noclipped away to not be caught.

In summary, what Zab did during this incident is clearly a violation of admin abuse, no matter what happened before the incident.

[Jendo 70]

+1/ Neutral.

Alright a few things to state at first which seem to require emphasis albeit aforementioned by multiple others the following two rules were violated. 

1. The use of staff powers in order to spy on any IC situation or meeting is wrong and one of the first things you are told to avoid doing upon obtaining a position in the staff team, this is non negotiable and anyone who thinks otherwise is incorrect.

2. To quote the staff code of conduct directly:
"You ARE NOT to interact with roleplay situations while playing as SOD, unless it is to intervene where a player is breaking out of character rules" This point is specifically applicable to Zab as there is complete evidence of him doing this, I have also noticed this on multiple other occasions.

Now, to dispute some points made from others.
 

4 hours ago, Jeff said:

-1 

He did nothing other then noclip spectate you guys whilst cloaked, his name was zab on duty at the time.

you claim he spoke and broke your "immersions" but when he spoke he was replying to people saying "someones noclipping in here whos noclipping". If you want to claim this is abuse because he ruined your immersion then everyone who spoke to him whilst he was cloaked and noclipped should be warned for FailRP also.

 

This entire argument is counter intuitive, the whole point of not using your staff powers to disturb IC happenings was broken here, it shows that even with minimal involvement, by just simple being present Zab using noclip and cloak with his name appearing in the chat box for who can hear disturbed this IC situation, meaning that this was no longer a completely valid roleplay scenario and albeit quite cringe this does mean that "The immersion was ruined".
 

2 hours ago, Hogus said:

RP action Injects drugs that make you forget prior moments (or well something along those lines), which could be considered power gaming really.

This has been a feature of RRD / Researchers ever since they were first inducted into the server under Pain & Frisby, the due to some research being conducted on clones being deemed unethical in the eyes of the republic. Of course the alternative is to terminate the subject however for many reasons, the aforementioned is the preferred option.
 

3 hours ago, Key said:

Also to add more on to this people was clearly treating the situation as OOC in this clip by shouting things such as "who's noclipping in here!" and saying things like "did you clip it bobby?" and "It's Zab" before he's even said anything just makes me think there's more to this that's just not being said at all.
1.4.2 - On this server you must remain in character at all times unless you are in an OOC situation or in OOC areas such as the bar.

See my response to Jeff, your duty as you understand it well as a staff member is to ensure all players can enjoy a roleplay experience with minimal OOC interruptions, Zabs presence alone (before even speaking) was enough for the participants of the RP to break character.
 

1 hour ago, Hazard said:

being friends with RA or any other high ranking person doesnt mean you can enter CL5-6

This is not what is being disputed here, this is a given however RRD were ordered over IC comms prior to the map switch to rishimoon to report to the RAs office.
 

1 hour ago, Zab said:

(This is nothing bad because it's literally my job, they are not Admiralty or battalion.)

Unless you were planning on warning RRD for breaking CL5 & 6, this is not your job you failed your job to maintain RP within the server when you alerted everyone within that room with your presence, breaking the roleplay completely.
 

 

1 hour ago, Zab said:

because a CG was in my channel and was wondering what was going on with force.

It's not your place to inform him of this, unless force was in an OOC situation of course. If the CG were then to respond to this situation they would have been metagaming, which you would have instigated. Another warnable offence for normal players.
 

1 hour ago, Zab said:

you can expect people to question what is going on.

Perhaps questioned IC rather than by a noclipping staff member, who has no valid argument to be present. To my knowledge there was no attempt IC to communicate with RRD?

I have responded to this as expected, as a Super Admin and not as RRD Hierarchy, the evidence is stacked against Zab with little to not rebuttal, I am aware of some negative bias held against RRD by 212th however this is irrelevant when staff duties are in question. The only saving grace in this scenario is that Zab himself is actually quite an understanding and approachable person OOC and I do not believe his intent was malicious, however actions (conscious or not) especially like this should have consequences. Apologies are one thing however prior actions are another, staff members in the past have abused their powers and despite being however apologetic they still received valid punishment, only difference being they were pro-active and attempted to right their wrongs prior to being reported.

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Jendo
Needed to conclude.

[Silent 148]

-1

I think zab was just very interested

Edited July 6, 2021 by Silent

[Danny 20]

-1

Zab is a nice guy and dosent try to break rules he did what he thought was right i dont think he should be punished maybe talk with him

[Sharp 35]

Gmod roleplay star wars 

[Loaf of bread 69]

Neutral

Jendo had summed it up well.

[Joe. 2]

Neutral

As loaf said, Jendo summed is all up very well, however

22 hours ago, Jendo said:

when you alerted everyone within that room with your presence, breaking the roleplay completely.

in my opinion the roleplay was broken prior to Zab revealing his presence when there were people in an in character scenario shouting out that there was someone in no-clip, even if Zab were to have not said that he was there the roleplay would have already been ruined by said people who at the time were currently roleplaying to then shout that theres an invisible man floating in the room.

Other than that though i completely agree with every other point you made

- he shouldnt have been there

- and he violated the staffing rules

(edit: spoke to Jendo on discord and he made me come to the realisation that the RP was broken before even the RRD was shouting it as it was ruined when they thought he was watching over them, if they didnt realise he may have been watching over them then the RP may have gone differently.)

Thoughts after speaking to Jendo:

+1 / Neutral

Edited July 7, 2021 by Joe.
More Information was explained to me

[Definitely Not Rogue 76]

Accepted

Staff member in question will be spoken to