Denied Mel EP Abuse/Gross Misconduct

[Panzer - Dājirin 14]

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Your in game name: Panzer, however, Geovani and Cameron are involved within this.

The accused staff member's in game name, Steam profile link or Steam ID (http://steamidfinder.com/) Meleditis1 | Mel | STEAM_0:0:561497112

What they had done (Please give a detailed description as to what happened):

Mel held a 10:30 event, which in and of itsself, was boring. Part of this event, it included a mass amount of AI/NPCs being put in small, condensed areas, and right click orbital strikes over bunks. During this event, 41st were messing around, including rough shots towards each other, some of which DID HIT and DID KILL, this we all admit! 

 

However, the manner of the warn, which i believe as a former Senior EP, as well as Geovani believes, as a former Admin, as well as a current EP (who will remain unnamed until we are asked to provide evidence in TS), as well as a former Event Planner, and Senior Mod was completely unprofessional, and, although we are not saying it is worth the removal of the warn, we are saying its manner was completely unprofessional.

 

AFTER THE EVENT, and therefore, at least 10-15 minutes after any killing took place, including the time for debrief to take place, as well as regimental debriefs, 41st as a whole were called to bunks, in character by REX. When we arrived in bunks, Geovani claims that Mel was seen walking down the stairs at the back of bunks, but then he suddenly wasnt there, or in voice chat proximity, inclining me to believe that he used no-clip to avoid an RP situation (he was in a TS channel with REX at the time, so clearly knew what was going on, further explained below).

41st arrived to bunks, and asked what we were called for, of which REX told us that he had received reports, which is therefore, IN CHARACTER, that 41st had been seen shooting each other. He then was asking us why, etc etc, however it was done in a sarcastic tone, and, again, it was done IN CHARACTER. REX then briefly, and i mean, very briefly, said that we were being warned, of which Cameron reacted calling it bullshit, claiming that he did not shoot (this i cannot confirm or deny, i have no idea if cameron did or didnt) anyone. I then said to Cameron, based on the wholly sarcastic tone of conversation that we were having, again, in A IN CHARACTER SITUATION, IN OUR BUNKS, that REX was taking the piss, which is what i genuinely believed, expecting an in character punishment, based on the in character report that he had recieved.

 

Then, the conversation kind of got wholly derailed, it was never denied by anyone that the threat of a warn was actually sarcastic, this i believe is due to REX being unaware of the situation, not actually knowing what was going to happen, while he was in a TS channel with Mel. 

 

Then, the conversation grew silent, and again, it was never denied that we either being warned, or that the statement was indeed "taking the piss".

 

Then, from this IN CHARACTER SITUATION, all three of us were warned for RDM, by Mel. Mel said absolutely nothing to us, in or out of character, and again, this was done after we were called to an in character situation. We were not taken to a sit, we were not explained the apparent 3 situations of RDM, we were given no context, other than the fact an in character report was made, which was told to us by REX.

 

After talking to REX, he was inclined to hand out an IN CHARACTER PUNISHMENT, and that it was a high command issue when we were called, in character, however, it kind of became a gross amalgamation where it was indiscernable between whether or not it was in or out of character. Mel, as a Senior Event Planner, should have known better than use REX as his puppet to say briefly "you guys are getting warned", and then us given no context, or validation towards that.

 

I cannot prove this, however, i believe that Mel was hovering above us in no-clip, in which he should have, at the very least, talked to us and commune that we were indeed getting warns, and turn it into a sit. If Mel was not with us, and in fact was somewhere else, he should not be giving warns anyway.

 

Overall, i believe that, as a whole, this situation is a mess, and a gross display of incompetency, that really shouldn't be tolerated. However, i will be more than happy & willing to see the opinion of the community, and more specifically, the EP & Staff team.

 

I genuinely and wholeheartedly believe that, putting aside the fact this situation has happened to me, if you are this out of your depth in giving something as simple as a warn, you should not be giving warns.

 

TO CLARIFY BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN CONFUSION: IT WAS A FULL AI EVENT - IN EVENTS, THERE IS CROSSFIRE, DUE TO IT BEING AN AI EVENT, IT DOES NOT SHOW THAT WE WERE FIGHTING ECS AT ANY POINT - IT LOOKS PURELY LIKE WE JUST RDMD IN LOGS, HOWEVER THAT IS NOT THE CASE!

Evidence (This is not required, however, if you don't have any evidence you ARE required to come on TeamSpeak and explain what happened on there with the accused staff member present. Evidence can be videos, recordings or screenshots):

 

N/A, Me, Geovani, Cameron, and the unnamed EP are however witnesses to the situation, and are willing, in TS to happily testify in front of SMT & Mel, so that we can have a proper discussion.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Panzer - Dājirin

[Tasker 61]

Why did Mel interrupt an in character situation which was being dealt by the Senior Commander to warn them 15 minutes after the incident happened???

[Meledits1 11]

I was doing my own thing in teamspeak when at the time Rex reported to me via teamspeak that one of his 104th had reported that the 41st during Defcon 4 were firing at each other and were killing each other.

 At the time I was eating dinner and curiously checked logs, the last kill log from Panzer killing Geovani was a time stamp of 8 minutes ago (which personally, It was reported as an In-character problem but, Rex brought it to me staff wise to look into it as well. So the accusation of using rex as a puppet is false due to it being a cooperative effort of looking into the situation via in-character knowledge and OOC resources . 

I was talking with Rex in teamspeak due to the fact we were already in teamspeak because of the PME that replaced the 10:30 event. When looking into what happened, I suggested to rex at the time to bring the 41st to bunks (since they were the only 3 on AT THE TIME) to discuss the situation of what happened. I proceeded to get away from that situation by allowing Rex to handle the situation of explaining due to myself being busy eating dinner at the time to explain the situation in both an IC and OOC context, especially since he was more involved as he was contacted about it and I was only looking for the logs staff wise to prove the evidence of it happening. I was only above them for the last part of warning them because Rex asked me to warn them since I was the highest staff member on (this was inferred on my part based on how I heard it from what rex said), the majority of the time, when I’m accused of hovering around, I was around scav camp or JT mountain area. 

Rex proceeded while talking with them in game to contact zab via teamspeak poke and eventually Zab joined to discuss the situation that was unfolding.  The discussion included the report from the 104th about 41st who were Cameron, Panzer and Geovani about how they were shooting at each other (and killed) and it was discussed how long ago the log was and what we should do. Zab said to warn them for RDM because “They are supposed to know the rules” due to the fact of them being former staff/EP members and that they really wouldn’t be demoted for in-character reasons since Rex didn’t witness it. I was following the suggestion given by Zab to just warn them which I did after Rex explained to them what they did wrong for the in character portion.

From what I can tell, there was a mix communication between Rex and myself when talking about it but still was handled properly even if we fumbled with the miscommunication portion about the idea of a sit (cause I assumed rex was doing it) and even when confused, we went to someone who is higher than us about it and got told by Zab it was okay to Warn them, this paired with the fact they knew what they were doing/did and that this was already explained to them IC and partially OOC that they were most likely going to be warned.
Breaking the rules is a warning.

"In future it will be a sit even if previously explained by another EP/staff at the time in both OOC/IC, to avoid any confusion and ensure we are all on the same page" - Mel

[Panzer - Dājirin 14]

10 hours ago, Meledits1 said:

I was doing my own thing in teamspeak when at the time Rex reported to me via teamspeak that one of his 104th had reported that the 41st during Defcon 4 were firing at each other and were killing each other.

 At the time I was eating dinner and curiously checked logs, the last kill log from Panzer killing Geovani was a time stamp of 8 minutes ago (which personally, It was reported as an In-character problem but, Rex brought it to me staff wise to look into it as well. So the accusation of using rex as a puppet is false due to it being a cooperative effort of looking into the situation via in-character knowledge and OOC resources . 

I was talking with Rex in teamspeak due to the fact we were already in teamspeak because of the PME that replaced the 10:30 event. When looking into what happened, I suggested to rex at the time to bring the 41st to bunks (since they were the only 3 on AT THE TIME) to discuss the situation of what happened. I proceeded to get away from that situation by allowing Rex to handle the situation of explaining due to myself being busy eating dinner at the time to explain the situation in both an IC and OOC context, especially since he was more involved as he was contacted about it and I was only looking for the logs staff wise to prove the evidence of it happening. I was only above them for the last part of warning them because Rex asked me to warn them since I was the highest staff member on (this was inferred on my part based on how I heard it from what rex said), the majority of the time, when I’m accused of hovering around, I was around scav camp or JT mountain area. 

Rex proceeded while talking with them in game to contact zab via teamspeak poke and eventually Zab joined to discuss the situation that was unfolding.  The discussion included the report from the 104th about 41st who were Cameron, Panzer and Geovani about how they were shooting at each other (and killed) and it was discussed how long ago the log was and what we should do. Zab said to warn them for RDM because “They are supposed to know the rules” due to the fact of them being former staff/EP members and that they really wouldn’t be demoted for in-character reasons since Rex didn’t witness it. I was following the suggestion given by Zab to just warn them which I did after Rex explained to them what they did wrong for the in character portion.

From what I can tell, there was a mix communication between Rex and myself when talking about it but still was handled properly even if we fumbled with the miscommunication portion about the idea of a sit (cause I assumed rex was doing it) and even when confused, we went to someone who is higher than us about it and got told by Zab it was okay to Warn them, this paired with the fact they knew what they were doing/did and that this was already explained to them IC and partially OOC that they were most likely going to be warned.
Breaking the rules is a warning.

"In future it will be a sit even if previously explained by another EP/staff at the time in both OOC/IC, to avoid any confusion and ensure we are all on the same page" - Mel

I’ll keep this short because i don’t want forum drama.

 

Rex was named dropped 12 times, and your excuse is the fact it was a joint issue between you and Rex - you are throwing him under the bus.

 

Ive been informed by someone who witnessesed the whole thing, but is not me, geo, or cameron, that some of this is just incorrect.

 

If you were only there for the last part, it wasn’t your place to intervene in Rex’s situation, while it was still ongoing.

 

It’s all well and good saying that it won’t happen next time with a little quote of your own, but you failed to admit fault for this one wholly. You also just contradict yourself in this statement.

 

I’ll leave the rest out of the forums because again, i feel it will all be resolved better when we are in teamspeak for the evidence phase, but like come on man, combine this with you and Soljay which happened previously, and i don’t know how you can try and slide this off.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Panzer - Dājirin

[Cameron_ 3]

I literally did nothing, I shot fucking no one intentionally; but I do acknowledge shooting Geovani. It was during a push into an area I cant quite remember in which I tried to kill either Mel or Rex when they where the mando PME character then Geo accidently caught a timing of walking Infront of me whilst I shot my sniper. The in character report shouldn't have even included me due to the fact that I never opened fire. I'm still perplexed as to why I was warned. I'm not trying to start any forum drama either I just want an explanation as to why I was even involved in the warn and the in character punishment.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Cameron_

[Geovani 32]

This should've been handled better. I'd like to add a few things that I believe are the problems with the situation and the handling of it:

1. We were called to bunks in character.

2. Mel was were no were near the "sit", if he were near we were, instead of just lurking in Noclip nearly all of this “miscommunication” could’ve been avoided. Mel claims that he was noclipping over scav camp which is avoiding the sit entirely.

3. During this exchange in the bunks, we were entirely under the intention that we were to receive an In-Character punishment until a very brief "Oh btw OOC You will be receiving a warn", after a few seconds of Cameron making some statements Panzer said "He's joking Cameron", to which no attempt was made to prove the statement false. It was only when we received the warning did we understand that he was in fact not joking

4. No attempt was made to get our side of the story. The discussion we had with Rex we either believed was in character as we made jokes such as “Geovani was in charge of cleaning our guns sir and they must’ve gone off because of that” and as I quipped “I accidentally shot myself sir while cleaning the barrel”. Mel was of course nowhere near us so could not hear this exchange and there should not count as taking our side of the story.

5. Mel warned us all before a map reset and made no attempt to come and communicate after the restart. When Mel joined the Channel with me and Panzer after being asked to discuss the warn, he said nothing to counter the points Panzer made and then returned to your channel and got the opinions of other members of the EP team.

6. In my opinion because it was an NPC event and there was 1 EC friendly damage and kills would show up more prominently and therefore it would seem we were pissing about and not shooting at NPCs. I know that I shot other people because of miss identification and because of the crowd in BB.

7. Mel was preoccupied during his own event and "sit" (he was eating), while playing on his job which means he is required to respond to claims as he is on staff duty. This most likely led to miscommunication. If he was distracted with eating he should’ve let Rex deal with it even if it led to the same outcome of asking Zab.

8. In Mel’s quote "In future, it will be a sit even if previously explained by another EP/staff at the time in both OOC/IC, to avoid any confusion and ensure we are all on the same page" doesn’t address the problems that; he didn’t get our side of the story and that in the “sit” nothing was really addressed seriously.

Overall the abuse in the situation is that Mel avoided taking the sit. It seems Mel assumed our guilt and that Mel did not want to be involved in an argument as Mel believed Mel was clearly in the right. Even if Zab said to warn them I doubt he heard any other context aside from “They were shooting each other”

Edited February 9, 2023 by Geovani

[Shepherd 98]

I'm very confused. What is Mel being "charged" with here? 

[Panzer - Dājirin 14]

20 minutes ago, Shepherd said:

I'm very confused. What is Mel being "charged" with here? 

False Warns, practically everything that you could do wrong when trying to give warns, was done.

 

Cameron was straight up false warned, he; to Geovanis, REXs and my knowledge did not kill anyone.

 

In handling me and Geovani, we were blindly warned mid in character situation with REX where we were going to be disciplined, with no sit, or or chance to explain ourselves; which is especially important considering it was with regards to an NPC only event, so it can’t be shown we were firing at AI, and it does just look like we spawned in and shot each other in logs, which is not the case, but we had no time to explain any of this, as literally seconds after the warns were given, the server restarted (By Vandori, because it was broken or something)

Edited February 10, 2023 by Panzer - Dājirin

[Shepherd 98]

I wouldn't really call this False Warning, that more implies he's doing it out of spite when in reality he didn't investigate it thoroughly which I believe is your point . This in my opinion probably goes into a unwarn appeal rather than staff abuse claim since it was stated you did shoot each other. I don't really expect EPs to know exactly what to do in situations like this since it isn't their main priority and if there was another staff on the server, he should have contacted them but I've been warned and didn't receive a sit. And yeah, I agree not having a sit to either have stuff explained to you or explain yourself is frustrating, but it's not abuse as far as I can see. 

[Zab 25]

Denied 
We do not feel there was admin abuse here. More a mistake from someone who is not used to dealing with this stuff.
If you feel like people were warned unfairly, Make a unwarn request.