Blistering and G and V Series Nerve Agents

[nandor 6]

I have long had an interest in nerve agents. I do not know what gas is used in this server, but as far as i know one agent is used. Most nerve agents and such are not gases, they are actually liquid. I think they are typically deployed in a aerosol form.

I believe it would be of great improvement to the roleplay of this server if blistering agents and a wide variety of G and V series nerve agents would be added, with their own effects. In severe cases, VX would act as a quick and effective alternative to amnestics. Blistering agents of less lethality could be added and used by multiple factions to less lethal consequences, improving and developing new roleplay scenarios which otherwise wouldn't exist that could contribute to the server's general feel. It should feel scary, it should feel like there is danger. It may be possible for them to be used as a more targeted way, as they are not actually gas. Of course, it couldn't just be bought. It would have to be necesary for these to be produced in a costly and timely way, during which they may be found and destroyed by police and task forces. 

[Joe Conner 207]

What?
So you want a aerosol form of a nerve agent that does damage?

Edited August 3, 2021 by Joe Conner

[nandor 6]

2 hours ago, Joe Conner said:

What?
So you want a aerosol form of a nerve agent that does damage?

I want blistering agents which are very slow to kill, as to work as a roleplay device. I also want nerve agents such as VX which are highly lethal also as a weapon and roleplay device. 

[Joe Conner 207]

3 hours ago, nandor said:

I want blistering agents which are very slow to kill, as to work as a roleplay device

So like tear gas or something that does slow damage?

 

3 hours ago, nandor said:

I also want nerve agents such as VX which are highly lethal also as a weapon and roleplay device. 

Already have mustard gas which is highly lethal (idk what VX is tho)

[nandor 6]

2 hours ago, Joe Conner said:

So like tear gas or something that does slow damage?

 

Already have mustard gas which is highly lethal (idk what VX is tho)

I dont know if you are referring to the lethality in game or in real life, but mustard gas was not designed to kill, they were designed to cause injuries and had a low death rate, about 1% i believe. VX is an unbelievably dangerous nerve agent which was developed in england in the 50's, from a series of nerve agents developed from what was originally German research into pesticides. About 10 millilitres of the stuff is all it would take to kill you. It takes the form of a oil like liquid and i believe is usually deployed as a kind of aerosol. It kills by interfering with the enzyme which allows the brain to control its muscles, and death is usually from the lungs failing as the brain cannot tell it to keep breathing properly. You can learn more about it here.

[Joe Conner 207]

I'm talking about in-game 

[Avery Winters 139]

On 8/3/2021 at 8:34 AM, nandor said:

In severe cases, VX would act as a quick and effective alternative to amnestics. 

I'm sorry but.. 

How can something that is intended to be created as a chemical weapon as an alternative to and i quote....

"Memory affecting agents in order to expunge sensitive data from the minds of unauthorized individuals." - Excerpt from the updated amnestics guide 

It can be argued that a gun can be "quick and effective alternative to amnestics". Because the guy shot is now a corpse.

The inital reason why amnestics are used is so that the people targeted by them can continue to live.

-------

On 8/3/2021 at 5:42 PM, nandor said:

. VX is an unbelievably dangerous nerve agent. *blah blah blah* About 10 millilitres of the stuff is all it would take to kill you. 

Also if you did your research you would know that a lethal dose from V-series Agents takes roughly 15 minutes to a kill a person via dermal exposure. Or minutes via inhalation. Meaning you would have to pump 30 Milligram-Minute Per Cubic Meter into the room at a sustained rate. Although is it really dependent on the dosage. The only Toxicolgical Data i could find is here. If this was added for authenticity. Let's picture the scene.

 

Lights! Camera! Action!

 

*With bright stagelight peering though the door, the EZ Armory doors swing wide open. Unveiling alex doe.... in a dress.*

*For dramatic effect, alex doe struts though the site. With a perfume bottle in hand*

*The unwitting Director Winters whlist resolving another administrative matter is sprayed with the bottle*

Director Winters: "Agh.. what the?"

*15 minutes later, Director Winters keels over and dies.*

 

Take 2!

 

*The unwitting Director Kelly is constructing yet another office. alex does sprays him down*

[COMMS][Foundation] Director Kelly: "AOS crossdresser in EZ, He got nerve agent."

*alex doe proceeds to be beaten by the present E-11, Nu-7, Alpha-1, CSB, Manufacturing Personnel and O5-3 that were in EZ*

Director Kelly: "Hey uh.. could you shoot me? Can't be bothered to go get treatment"

Bang!

 

The point is.. once people know about the nerve agent. It will lose its gimmick. Then it will be meta'ed or worse alex doe takes off the dress for another disguise.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Avery Winters

[Joe Conner 207]

6 hours ago, Avery Winters said:

*The unwitting Director Winters whlist resolving another administrative matter

Very funni

[Hermann Aster 6]

On 8/6/2021 at 10:23 AM, Avery Winters said:

*The unwitting Director Kelly is constructing yet another office. alex does sprays him down*

Imagine if this is how Kelly's next PK will be

[Plague 174]

On 8/7/2021 at 11:13 AM, Hermann Aster said:

Imagine if this is how Kelly's next PK will be

this gives me an excellent idea...

[Engel 72]

1 hour ago, Plague said:

this gives me an excellent idea...

@Sam Kelly count your days

[Avery Winters 139]

14 hours ago, Plague said:

this gives me an excellent idea...

Pleig in a dress? Hell yeah

[nandor 6]

On 8/6/2021 at 4:23 AM, Avery Winters said:

I'm sorry but.. 

How can something that is intended to be created as a chemical weapon as an alternative to and i quote....

"Memory affecting agents in order to expunge sensitive data from the minds of unauthorized individuals." - Excerpt from the updated amnestics guide 

It can be argued that a gun can be "quick and effective alternative to amnestics". Because the guy shot is now a corpse.

The inital reason why amnestics are used is so that the people targeted by them can continue to live.

-------

Also if you did your research you would know that a lethal dose from V-series Agents takes roughly 15 minutes to a kill a person via dermal exposure. Or minutes via inhalation. Meaning you would have to pump 30 Milligram-Minute Per Cubic Meter into the room at a sustained rate. Although is it really dependent on the dosage. The only Toxicolgical Data i could find is here. If this was added for authenticity. Let's picture the scene.

 

Lights! Camera! Action!

 

*With bright stagelight peering though the door, the EZ Armory doors swing wide open. Unveiling alex doe.... in a dress.*

*For dramatic effect, alex doe struts though the site. With a perfume bottle in hand*

*The unwitting Director Winters whlist resolving another administrative matter is sprayed with the bottle*

Director Winters: "Agh.. what the?"

*15 minutes later, Director Winters keels over and dies.*

 

Take 2!

 

*The unwitting Director Kelly is constructing yet another office. alex does sprays him down*

[COMMS][Foundation] Director Kelly: "AOS crossdresser in EZ, He got nerve agent."

*alex doe proceeds to be beaten by the present E-11, Nu-7, Alpha-1, CSB, Manufacturing Personnel and O5-3 that were in EZ*

Director Kelly: "Hey uh.. could you shoot me? Can't be bothered to go get treatment"

Bang!

 

The point is.. once people know about the nerve agent. It will lose its gimmick. Then it will be meta'ed or worse alex doe takes off the dress for another disguise.

It takes the amount of VX the size of a pinhead to be lethal, you clearly have no idea of how the substance works at all. Long before death the acetylcholine has been stripped from the synaptic gap rendering the brain unable to use any of its muscles. That is usually about as effective as being dead. I've got no idea where you have found the claim you need to pump 30 milligrams into a room to kill that quickly either. Considering that chemical weapons are such effective and horrific killing machines that almost all countries have agreed to destroy their stocks out of fear that they will be used against themselves in retaliation in case they used them, you certainly don't seem to understand this effeciency. I think you've confused the lethal dosage with milligrams and not micrograms, which are signifcantly smaller. They have an advantage over guns in that you don't need line of sight or accuracy and can quickly be deployed over a large area to kill anyone in the cloud. It's heavier than air so it would be useful to be sprayed over by a aircraft, presumably the foundations preferred method of delivering chemicals. The non lethal dose is extremely close to the lethal dose, and if by some miracle survival happens, there will be severe and permanent damage and disability. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by nandor

[Avery Winters 139]

6 hours ago, nandor said:

 I've got no idea where you have found the claim you need to pump 30 milligrams into a room to kill that quickly either. 

You clearly didn't read the article fully. 

On 8/6/2021 at 4:23 AM, Avery Winters said:

The only Toxicolgical Data i could find is here. 

I referenced toxical data from this website (https://fas.org/programs/bio/chemweapons/cwagents.html) (The underlined "here." part was a hyperlink). If you can find other Toxicolgical Data and reference it~ Would be appreciated.

Here is where i got "30 milligrams into a room". 

Of course, it wouldn't be "30 milligrams into a room".  It is 30 Millgrams - per - minute - metre - cubed .

The breakdown of that measurement being that for every minute  - per Cubic Meter (㎥). This amount of millgrams needs to be pumped into this room at a rate of every minute - per Cubic meter. That is to cover the room completely in a perfect enviroment where the room is completely sealed.  Of course, you don't have to completely cover the room as long as the target breathes enough of the stuff in. Course that would mean your chances of him getting the right dosage is lowered. 

An average bathroom is around 18 cubic meters so that figure jumps to 540 milligrams per minute to fill an average bathroom. According this website. http://www.spaceout.com.au/about-spaceout/spaceout-guidelines/how-much-space-do-i-need.php 

Now, why per minute? Dependent on the temperture of the room, the vapor cools, condenses, falls and sticks to the ground.  So unless the target starts licking the floors and walls or the room turns into an oven. Even more less chance of them dying.

Now why do i point this out? Because 540 millgrams is perfectly reasonable to be fit into a hand grenade.

6 hours ago, nandor said:

I think you've confused the lethal dosage with milligrams and not micrograms, which are signifcantly smaller. 

 If you convert 540 mg into 0.54 ml. That fits perfectly in a bottle roughly the size of your hand. Shown here.

Also why use micrograms? 540 millgrams is converted to 540000 micrograms. Why do you need a bigger number? Can you not read the number "540"?

Buddy, i know how measurements work. The world invented measurements to preceive the world better. It's easier to deal with whole numbers than decimals or larger than needed numbers but it doesn't change the fact that 0.54 ml is still 540 mg which is still 540000 micrograms. The problem wasn't the size in the first place.

Conversion was created so we can translate between units of measurements. Hence the field of mathmatics. 1 Microgram is equal to 0.001 Millgram. But it's still the same value.

The real problem flew right over your head.

The real question you should be asking. Who else cares? Cept me and you. (Me for indulging your "interest in nerve agents" in hopes of having an academic discussion)

No-one cares about the science. End of. You'd would have prolly got a better chance labeling this topic "I want more variations of chemical grenades for CI" At least, the CI mains would just blankly +1 this. 

On 8/6/2021 at 4:23 AM, Avery Winters said:

The point is.. once people know about the nerve agent. It will lose its gimmick. Then it will be meta'ed or worse alex doe takes off the dress for another disguise.

 This was the real message. I wanted you explain what about Nerve agents should be added to the server. From a gameplay stance. Not a scientific stance.

No-one but me and you is even bothering with the scientific stance. 

6 hours ago, nandor said:

,presumably the foundations preferred method of delivering chemicals. 

You seem to have a warped vision of the Foundation must having to use the most "terrifying weapons" of all times. 

How about this scenario. The Foundation have identified a target worthy of being bombarded. It has all of the approvals, it will ever need.

I pose this question to you. What would be the justification of using Nerve Agents over conventional weapons?

I leave that for you to answer.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Avery Winters

[nandor 6]

5 hours ago, Avery Winters said:

You clearly didn't read the article fully. 

I referenced toxical data from this website (https://fas.org/programs/bio/chemweapons/cwagents.html) (The underlined "here." part was a hyperlink). If you can find other Toxicolgical Data and reference it~ Would be appreciated.

Here is where i got "30 milligrams into a room". 

Of course, it wouldn't be "30 milligrams into a room".  It is 30 Millgrams - per - minute - metre - cubed .

The breakdown of that measurement being that for every minute  - per Cubic Meter (㎥). This amount of millgrams needs to be pumped into this room at a rate of every minute - per Cubic meter. That is to cover the room completely in a perfect enviroment where the room is completely sealed.  Of course, you don't have to completely cover the room as long as the target breathes enough of the stuff in. Course that would mean your chances of him getting the right dosage is lowered. 

An average bathroom is around 18 cubic meters so that figure jumps to 540 milligrams per minute to fill an average bathroom. According this website. http://www.spaceout.com.au/about-spaceout/spaceout-guidelines/how-much-space-do-i-need.php 

Now, why per minute? Dependent on the temperture of the room, the vapor cools, condenses, falls and sticks to the ground.  So unless the target starts licking the floors and walls or the room turns into an oven. Even more less chance of them dying.

Now why do i point this out? Because 540 millgrams is perfectly reasonable to be fit into a hand grenade.

 If you convert 540 mg into 0.54 ml. That fits perfectly in a bottle roughly the size of your hand. Shown here.

Also why use micrograms? 540 millgrams is converted to 540000 micrograms. Why do you need a bigger number? Can you not read the number "540"?

Buddy, i know how measurements work. The world invented measurements to preceive the world better. It's easier to deal with whole numbers than decimals or larger than needed numbers but it doesn't change the fact that 0.54 ml is still 540 mg which is still 540000 micrograms. The problem wasn't the size in the first place.

Conversion was created so we can translate between units of measurements. Hence the field of mathmatics. 1 Microgram is equal to 0.001 Millgram. But it's still the same value.

The real problem flew right over your head.

The real question you should be asking. Who else cares? Cept me and you. (Me for indulging your "interest in nerve agents" in hopes of having an academic discussion)

No-one cares about the science. End of. You'd would have prolly got a better chance labeling this topic "I want more variations of chemical grenades for CI" At least, the CI mains would just blankly +1 this. 

 This was the real message. I wanted you explain what about Nerve agents should be added to the server. From a gameplay stance. Not a scientific stance.

No-one but me and you is even bothering with the scientific stance. 

You seem to have a warped vision of the Foundation must having to use the most "terrifying weapons" of all times. 

How about this scenario. The Foundation have identified a target worthy of being bombarded. It has all of the approvals, it will ever need.

I pose this question to you. What would be the justification of using Nerve Agents over conventional weapons?

I leave that for you to answer.

 

Im not going to waste my time typing that rubbish, SCP fiction is bottom of the barrel shit which always falls to "big scary thing countered by big foundation device". I dont know why you wouldn't find VX handy. For an organisation that requires death and to apply it occasionally on a large area it would be very useful. Your maths skills are terrible also. 

[Avery Winters 139]

6 hours ago, nandor said:

 Your maths skills are terrible also. 

haha calculator go beep boop

6 hours ago, nandor said:

I dont know why you wouldn't find VX handy. 

No i really don't.. enlighten us all then. 

6 hours ago, nandor said:

 For an organisation that requires death and to apply it occasionally on a large area it would be very useful. 

I'd argue a very very large bomb can do the same. Ya know, you could've sold it as an assassination weapon. I'll agree with you on that one.

6 hours ago, nandor said:

Im not going to waste my time typing that rubbish

Alright, new question then. Since clearly you have no justificaton. Instead...

What do you actually want brought to the server, gameplay wise?

I'll just answer the qustion for us both to save time. You have nothing. (Feel free to prove me wrong)

Edited August 13, 2021 by Avery Winters

[Kvisten 539]

 

Anyways -1, no real need. I think it is enough with chemical & biological weapons.

[nandor 6]

2 hours ago, Avery Winters said:

haha calculator go beep boop

 

The moment you said this you immediately revealed you are susceptible to devolving all and any argument to this type of rubbish nonsense, presumably because of intellectual disability. 

[Jason Haze 100]

22 hours ago, nandor said:

The moment you said this you immediately revealed you are susceptible to devolving all and any argument to this type of rubbish nonsense, presumably because of intellectual disability. 

ah yes because checking math and proving your calculations completely nullifies an well based argument. Get fucked NASA, what fucking losers needing to use calculators and other mathematical devices to ensure their equations are correct.

Sorry Avery, your argument just collapsed harder than air force one if Osama was flying it.

 

On 8/13/2021 at 8:22 AM, nandor said:

Im not going to waste my time typing that rubbish

yet you will waste your time arguing over something you dont seem to understand very well.

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Jason Haze

[Avery Winters 139]

40 minutes ago, nandor said:

The moment you said this you immediately revealed you are susceptible to devolving all and any argument to this type of rubbish nonsense, presumably because of intellectual disability. 

*sigh* No... i said that because you aren't willing to dispute my mathematical skills. With an actual explanation. Which you seem to lack of in your recent answers.

Again.. What do you actually want brought to the server, gameplay wise?

 

2 minutes ago, Jason Haze said:

Sorry Avery, your argument just collapsed harder than air force one if Osama was flying it.

uwu.. i'm injured

[Norra 447]

Denied.

Our current "chemical warfare system" is alright right now, I don't think we need to add onto it. I believe Avery said enough too.