Internal Tribunal Department

[Serrt 113]

"The upholstery of the Law is absolute. Times are changing. The Foundation Legal Codex must be given Justice. Just like we shall administer Justice."

"Welcome to the Internal Tribunal Department. You are here because you wish to maintain the course of sanctity and justice in the Foundation? Excellent. Please, examine the files and find out if this truly is the job for you."

 

Spoiler

Purpose

The Internal Tribunal Department is an independent judicial body that will introduce a constant system of trials, charges and appeals for all convictions or detainments applied within the Foundation. They exist to provide a platform of unbiased hearing for all those who wish to uphold the Law and ensure that should a crime be committed, the vast Legal Codex is upheld and those who must be punished shall be with haste.

The Internal Tribunal Department is accessible to all members of the Foundation. The right to an attorney and a fair trial is essential in the maintaining of standards within our Site, thus, we aim to provide a true spearhead in terms of accurate protection of the New Legal Codex.

In Summary: The Internal Tribunal Department will become a permanent part of Site Administration and be used to handle trials ranging from infractions that land a person in EZ Cells all the way to the most serious CL5 trials, all while being an independent body that maintains fairness above all. They can be used by anyone and will become the main funnel for handling the application of charges against the Legal Codex.

Spoiler

Function and Slots

The Internal Tribunal Department will comprise of 2 slots:

• Tribunal Co-Counsel
• Tribunal Attorney

Co-Counsel is the slot for those who have recently arrived to the job and require training. They are able to lead and conduct trials, but will typically be asked to be under supervision from a Tribunal Attorney.

 

A Tribunal Attorney is someone who has been in the group for a long time and passed all checks that management has for them. They will gain the privilege of being able to perform all functions in a Trial based on what they prefer and can be the mentor for a Co-Counsel.

 

Each slot will have a basic arsenal:

Co-Counsel would have a CL3 keycard, one set of cuffs and pistols for self defense.

Attorney would have the same except for CL4 instead of CL3.

Spoiler

 

Requirements

The following is expected of all those who wish to become a part of the Internal Tribunal Department:

• Fluent knowledge of the Foundation Legal Codex
• Unwavering impartiality.
• Co-ordination with all departments to provide access to our services.
• Time management to ensure no backlog of Trials is created.
• Delegation in case a Trial that requires high clearance is required.
• Strong professionalism and charisma so that clients have no fear in using our services.
• Loyalty to the Foundation Legal Codex instead of a Department. Justice above all.
• Responsibility in handling those attempting to bribe or bypass the system.

   

Spoiler

Applications

All applications to the Internal Tribunal Department will be conducted through RP. Those wishing to apply will book a slot to undergo a mock of a Bar Trial to test their skills at this sort of field. You can then be assigned to any of the given roles that we have in the job based on what we believe is your specialty. You may contact any of the Management or High Ranks to conduct this.

Spoiler

Additional Information

Owner: Cameron Stoker/Serrt

Manager: Mark Kuntson

Vice Manager - TBD.

This group would be a part of the Administrative Discord.

Spreadsheet - WIP.

Willing to speak to SMT if any changes are required or they need something to change for conformity.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Serrt
Clarity for a job suggestion

[Bill Pill 87]

+1
People aren't punishing people for crimes enough I think we need a department who will sort this problem out.

[Atomik 248]

previous response was cringe

 

-1, easily done by ecm or cbs

Edited September 4, 2021 by Atomik

[Mark Kuntson 178]

46 minutes ago, Atomik said:

Neutral.

Law is good, hell O5-6, Nu-7, and ECM handle law.  But a whole just for law?  Dont know how I feel about it

We are not only aimed at enforcing the law. We want to provide immersive trails and punishments not just demotions. The ECM trails although with competent people not always turn out... coordinated. I know SMT is not really keen on the trails for everyone that is why we are expecting to be contacted to make some rules on as who and when can you request a trial. 

[Fixer 255]

No, no, no stop. There is a reason I fucking ban court session as O5. They are a fucking waste of everyone's time and a circus show. They should be restricted to only high level personal and even then we don't need a special job for it. Personally I am tired of treating this as some state. Foundation is an organization which hires people and fires them if they fuck up.

[Mark Kuntson 178]

On 3/17/2021 at 11:18 PM, Fixer said:

No, no, no stop. There is a reason I fucking ban court session as O5. They are a fucking waste of everyone's time and a circus show. They should be restricted to only high level personal and even then we don't need a special job for it. Personally I am tired of treating this as some state. Foundation is an organization which hires people and fires them if they fuck up.

Alright so let me clarify what this job does:

- (Probably with some restrictions like WL jobs only or sth) anyone who is facing a demotion or a more harash punishment can request a court trial. (COURT TRAILS ARE NOT MANDATORY)

- My vision is that there will be 2 types of trails. Scheduled ones for big/important situations and on the spot ones. The scheduled ones will work similarly to how the current trails work but we will actually have trained coordinated people. The attorney will be the judge (unless he was involved personnaly with the situation) and the co-counsel will be prosecution and (if the detainee wants it) the lawyer. We plan for the trails to not last a bullshit amount of time like they do now, by training our guys and doing briefings to the prosecution/defendant before them so they can prepare themselves. The "on the spot" trials will be a fast 5-10 min ones that will be held for less important issues and will be held immedatly after detainment. They do not require the Tribunal to be full since the detainee can defend himself and the prosecution is comprised of the arresting officer.

- Foundation is a group where employees come and go and yet they still have created the Internal Tribunal Department. They still aim for fairness and still enforce their rules within the anomalous community. That is what this job is for.

- Outside of trails the ITD will also help prosecute detainees when and where experts in the Foundation Legal Codex are needed.

- We are suggesting this job because none of the jobs really focus on it. I personnaly manage Nu-7 and sure we do law but it is only the NCOs/COs. They are not trained/prepared to prosecute/trail people. The Ethics Committee has tried many times to be a mix of the Ethics and ITD and I don't think it has ever worked out. ECM and ITB are 2 different departemnts that do 2 different things. Besides as I said the ECM Trials are chaotic and that is fine. The job is not Law based.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Mark Kuntson

[Matthew Wickers 52]

I actually don't really see a point of this being Added because ECM can take  deal of this whole Foundation law  Its just that people do not like to play those kind of Jobs. And second of all if someone is in the court,,, what he will stay 2 hours arguing if he is guilty or not guilty and turn the whole rp into a fuckin waste  of time to everyone???  And if someone is Facing a Demotion/Punishment It will  turn into a mess  with Video Proofs and anything related  to the Court.  Basically in my opinion just a waste of Time and No Purpose either there is many jobs that can deal and talk with the People who did something you call '' Crime Or Punishment''  I do not find anything that will Improve the Roleplay  in the Foundation as having this job as Site Administration. And Why having Pistols? Thats even  bad for you since CI can literally just fucking blast you out and you can't do anything about it.  Either I am staying on Neutral-1 
If this gets accepted I will have the full pleasure to Gas your Court with various Grenades and  do my Chaos job :D.

[Matthew Wickers 52]

1 hour ago, Titty Man said:

Yes, bring back the old rigged B1 trials +1

Will be better if B-1 is added as this job.

[Alan J Miller 156]

-1 No. Courts are like the French revolution on this server, its a lot of screaming until someone shoots the guy that fucked up.

[Mark Kuntson 178]

16 minutes ago, Alan J Miller said:

-1 No. Courts are like the French revolution on this server, its a lot of screaming until someone shoots the guy that fucked up.

The point of the job is not to just make courts happen. It is to make good an coordinated courts happen. No screaming. No waiting 80 minutes until people figure out what to do. No "Ok so you get executed"

[Kinqu Kyle 190]

11 minutes ago, Mark Kuntson said:

No screaming

lie

11 minutes ago, Mark Kuntson said:

No waiting 80 minutes until people figure out what to do.

lie

11 minutes ago, Mark Kuntson said:

No "Ok so you get executed"

lie

Im gonna call you out for lying on job suggestion!!!

Edited March 18, 2021 by Kinqu Kyle

[Alan J Miller 156]

10 minutes ago, Mark Kuntson said:

The point of the job is not to just make courts happen. It is to make good an coordinated courts happen. No screaming. No waiting 80 minutes until people figure out what to do. No "Ok so you get executed"

my point is that even with a job made to keep control it will still be a shit show

[Alan J Miller 156]

 literally every trial on scp rp

[Mark Kuntson 178]

1 minute ago, Alan J Miller said:

my point is that even with a job made to keep control it will still be a shit show

I disagree. As I stated in my other response there will probably be 2 types of trials. On the spot "quick ones" will last no longer then 5 mintues due to the nautures of the crimes that we want to deal with in those on the spot trials.

 

The scheduled one, aka those ones who have been happening on the server I think will be way more coordinated if the Judge/Prosecution/Defence are either a part of ITD or are informed about how to prepare for the trail for it not to last 20 minutes. I feel like the reason why trials are so uncoordinated is because nobody knows what to expect. If people get brief instructions a day before the trial they will know what to expect and will know how to prepare

[Bruno Woodston 76]

I think the "on the spot ones" would not work at all. Not because of the people working in this department, but because it would only take one person who is acting like a retard to make it a disorganized mess. While the preplanned trails could work, I don't think there is a need for a whole department to do this. If this is going to be made, I think it should be made into a 1 or max 2 slot job. This is a nice idea, but because of the lack of serious RP in the server, I don't think this would work.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Bruno Woodston

[Mark Kuntson 178]

3 minutes ago, Bruno Woodston said:

I think the "on the spot ones" would not work at all. Not because of the people working in this department, but because a random security can come up and start screaming and everyone would start responding to the retard, it would turn into a disorganized mess. While the preplanned trails could work, I don't think there is a need for a whole department to do this. If this is going to be made, I think it should be made into a 1 or max 2 slot job. This is a nice idea, but because of the lack of serious RP in the server, I don't think this would work.

We are still thinking on how to restrict trails so we do not have a trial every single minute, so yes this is an issue. Regarding random security busting in we are planning to use le epic dupes / private places / actually use security to protect the trial form tresspassers. I think that security would be more than happy to do something in EZ since everyone keeps screaming at them for no reason. So this is an opportunity for them to do fun stuff as well as observe and learn. 

This is a 3 slot job because the minimal amount of people for the trail is around 7. For the trail to go smoothly you would need a competent Judge and Prosecution, the detainee/defendant can either defend himself or get one of the ITD/Other employees as his lawyer. And ofc you need a jury, minimum of 3 but anyone can be jury.

[Kinqu Kyle 190]

guys i think this is very serious

[hurt Blecha the second 35]

hmm, ok... this is interesting there are to problems with this 

Nu-7 can handle Law and no need for a new group

O-5s can set up a court trail if needed 

ECMs can do the same. 
But this can add RP where IF the group is not bias and not minge or have any authority over others 

what will the job do if no one is breaking law just walk around the site and minge ? 

if you get the job to have more roles in the server, that would be better but Nu-7 or any person with a brain can handle Law 

soo i will give this +1 i can see why everyone hates this but this can add RP, and Nu-7 and any other person can handle law if no tribunal on 

Edited March 18, 2021 by hurt Blecha the second

[kenopsia 130]

It would definitely be interesting to see an organised and planned trial in EZ

+1

[Serrt 113]

3 hours ago, hurt Blecha the second said:

hmm, ok... this is interesting there are to problems with this 

Nu-7 can handle Law and no need for a new group

O-5s can set up a court trail if needed 

ECMs can do the same. 
But this can add RP where IF the group is not bias and not minge or have any authority over others 

what will the job do if no one is breaking law just walk around the site and minge ? 

if you get the job to have more roles in the server, that would be better but Nu-7 or any person with a brain can handle Law 

soo i will give this +1 i can see why everyone hates this but this can add RP, and Nu-7 and any other person can handle law if no tribunal on 

Everything said here is valid and I think addresses the sentiment of other -1's so I'd like to quote this one to address some issues.

Point regarding Nu-7: Yes, they can. But does that mean they should have to? Nu-7 is the main armed unit of the Foundation and turning points regarding Site Security can happen at a moments notice. That's just how it is. On top of that, the main reason I added this job is because I was playing A-1, I noticed that the way people were handling the Legal Codex was becoming very unsavory and rushed, because they knew that due to raids they didn't have the time to handle it. A dedicated job means Nu-7 only has to handle cuffing, we handle tha actual administration of a verdict and punishment.

O5 trials typically involve the ECM. Given that the ECM is swayed directly by the Council Member (Walter), who runs almost every single trial, more than half of the trials they set up are swayed in some fashion. We have no interest in anything but actually finding the truth and reaching a verdict for it. 
 

When no one is breaking the law, I respond with the question: What does the HoEA do when nothing external is happening? They just delegate and perform other duties at the request of other Administration. Simple as that. We are actually able to function without people breaking the Law, as we expect such high standards that the players with the WL should know how to actually contribute to the Site.

I hope this addresses some key points. Please feel free to keep asking questions to me and Mark.

[Fixer 255]

Okay so again yesterday's response was less analytical. Anyway on to it.

Firstly my main problem is who will play this job? So far ECM have failed this but okay fine they weren't fully focused on the law side of things but I don't see this being active for long. Most people don't even know the codex and I really don't know why people would be interested in learning the codex. Secondly you say the court trials (short ones) will last 5 - 10 minutes. That sounds like some soviet court but okay (as illustrated well by the meme). Thirdly the moment people catch on this is a thing tell me why wouldn't someone demand a court case and waste everyone's time? Plus when Kuntson was answering that question I did not get a direct answer "WLs jobs or something". When you make a RP group/job you should have a clear vision about how it will function. The purpose is fine but if you can't answer a question that is crucial to understanding fully how the job will operate then that worries me. Fourthly unless we are talking about the council I would like to know what stops me as O5 from abolishing the court while I am on the site and resolving these matters directly myself? Fifthly the jobs do not need pistols. SDs don't have them, ECM don't have them and HoEA has them cause they go to the surface.  Sixthly I have seen enough court trials that there is a reason why I ban them as O5. They are always dragged out, countless things can interrupt them such as breaches, raids and haha funny reality blender which you know they fucking will and which are definitely not a rare case these days. So why do we have to make this into 1 - 2 hours long circus which it will be if it can just as easily be resolved by high ranking individuals much quicker (Excpetion being O5s)?

Edited March 18, 2021 by Fixer

[Kvisten 540]

-1

Interesting concept but I just don't see this job surviving for more than 1 week, like man doing court is a pain. You always get interrupted by minges, breaches and other shit which makes the entire court shit. Don't think that you need ITD to do courts, as I've seen courts being done by other jobs sooo yeaah.

It feels like it will end up with B-1 courts, just a shitshow.

[Windows XP 81]

Neutral

 

While I would be happy to have another law-related group on the server, I am not sure it would work well (and courts never end well either)

[Serrt 113]

45 minutes ago, Titty Man said:

I have three question for management to answer me:

- How the fuck are you suposed to defend yourself using only information IC.

I legit would like to know how are you suposed to defend yourself in a case with no actual evidences or so (since this is a game after all). The only ways i see for you to sucessufly win a case is to either cry to judge asking a lowyer sentence; have a recording (which shouldn't count); have some reputations and some puppets to back you up; bribe the judge. Otherwise than that you are always rigged to lose because no one gives a shit if you are found not guilty (people are blood thristy); no one gives a shit if you are new to the server; your word against the NU-7 LT who detained you is worthless, because their rank automaticaly proves that they are more right than you (still happens everytime, no one questioned the chad elite WLed B-1 Sentinel Unit, and no one questions the less cool NU-7 NCO nowadays). I've tried multiple times to defend level 15 who got locked up for idk §112 §215 §307 when they have no idea of what is going on or how to play, but guess how many times it worked, 0, because unless you have a gun and a pair of cuffs, you can't win using words, because you are nobody.

As I said this is just going to be like B-1 trials where the judge and everyone has their head already made up and sentence you (have nothing against the people who participated the trials, I even did on one myself, but they were shitty.). 

So better forget hosting actual trials on real cases, because that doesn't work. What you could do in the other hand is to write events that actual envolve criminal investigation, questioning and finding clues to find who is the victim, then a (acted) trial would be hosted with some cool objections and outdated autopshy reports like Ace Attorney. That would be way more fun and RP intuitive than sitting in a chair reading text dialogue about nothing. SCPRP Events don't base mainly on anomalies appearing, cults, GOI's, succubus or dating demons, they can just be casual stuff inside of Foundation (since people can't do it by themselves).

 

- What is the difference between being considered automaticly guilty as soon you get arrested, spend 10 minutes in jail and be released, or going into a trial process where you can't properly defend yourself, waste another 20 minutes to get things done and then finnaly serve your 10 minutes sentence.

Already said, the whole process is a mess and would take even longer to actual punishments happen. The suggestion is a mess as well, no actual interesting details about the court structure and procceding (assuming that job name wouldn't be attorney and co-councelor, and the mock trial would be more simply and enjoyable). Although ECM is pretty useless as usual, the SD's quality in terms of leadership/decision making is pretty average/bad, you still have O5´s to do that sort of stuff.

 

On a last note, half of the detentions are for bs reasons such as for example: "He said bitch, direspect towards personnel"; "He didn't follow the dumb instructions that a higher up shouted to him do"; "He shot to the air, mentally unfit"; "He entered on the NU7 recruitment room to patrol it, immedate detentions". Legal Codex is just used as an excuse so people can detain somebody who disagrees with them, or someone who you don't like. 
While I have nothing against ITD infact it is a good idea, it won't workout on a server which keypoints consist of pure TDM and femboys, a lot of femboys.

Your sentiment on this topic is valid and I understand from experiencing the latter half of B-1s presence on the server what you mean. I'm not going to lie to anyone and say I can guarantee anything. That's not fair. But I think it actually opens up avenues for people to collect evidence and make something interesting happen. For example: Some Nu-7 Recruit is accused of accidentally shooting personnel, but someone provides evidence that's impossible cause of a screenshot of the bloodstain. Not Guilty, you're free to go, anyone trying to stop you will be detained themselves. It actually creates a process where the player or his support has to understand the situation and can get themselves out of a false accusation. I know what B-1 was like but my experiences of actually practicing Law means that I want to make a system that is as fair as possible with very high standards of quality control. I already have proposed the following rules in my head and I believe Kuntson will agree to them:

• Being caught accepting bribery is an immediate 1 month blacklist
• Purposefully ignoring evidence is an immediate demotion to Co-Counsel or possible removal
• Being biased in any way as the Judge results in an immediate demotion of rank, possible removal.
• Failure to investigate properly and uphold Justice results in a verbal reprimand, similar to a Tier system.

Furthermore, the point on the idea of being detained and going through trial only to then suffer time is worthless, also fair. We therefore propose that if anyone is willing to go through the Trial process because they truly believe they are Not Guilty but get countered with irrefutable evidence that they are, will face immediate demotion, no sentences of Jail Time. We can increase this punishment to contacting a Management team if we believe the person broke severe rules.

 

The ITD also has the right to throw out a case if it believes it is not valid and will have governance over who is in EZ Cells. If we believe there is blatantly obvious false detainment, we can just process that person and get them on their way with a verbal reprimand at most if necessary.

 

We also get what people mean about new players being clueless. However, taking a callback to the Application process that I outlined in the format, I believe we can host more Mock Bar "Trials" to introduce the concepts of the Foundation Legal Codex to new players. As I have stated several times, we only want people on this job who we spot actual good qualities in terms of Law or general logical skills, meaning that I would trust people who are part of the WL to educate players if they really are interested in learning.

 

To reiterate, I can't guarantee anything, but my intentions with this job are to make the fairest system possible and provide an avenue for players to gain experience in the Law field and also sit down for Trials if they want something else to do etc. Hope this helps.

[Joe Conner 207]

Good idea in THEORY.
However, PRACTICALLY,  this idea will not work as everyone would be yelling at each other and do random shit which would never end well.