The Cogwork Orthodoxy

[Mark Kuntson 178]

This is a very productive convesation, take it to General Discussion

[Fayne™ 242]

1 hour ago, AlexMagus said:

you tell me nathan kennedy

You being management should be telling us.

I'm actually curious on what @Lorex Krato thinks of this suggestion. I personally don't see this going any other way other than a bloodbath between sarkics and church everytime they spot each other.

[Bill Pill 87]

Just now, Fayne™ said:

You being management should be telling us.

I'm actually curious on what @Lorex Krato thinks of this suggestion. I personally don't see this going any other way other than a bloodbath between sarkics and church everytime they spot each other.

I have already said that I'm going to try and limit combat between the 2 groups but yes there will be combat there's no way you can really stop Cogwork Orthodoxy from shooting up a few people but I'll try and limit that and include more passive RP.

[Atomik 248]

Won't work, and I have the energy to explain why.

First, im probably one of the most qualified to talk on this, as i've owned all 3 sects at one point, Orthodoxy being the longest.  So let me explain why this simply wouldn't work in todays climate.

First, the playerbase.  It was shit when I owned Church, and has only gone to hell.  Almost no one will understand the Orthodoxy, the scripture, much less how to RP as church.  It will become like last church, copy and pasting cogs all over the place, being idiotic and not understanding Standardization, and thinking its placing cogs everywhere.

Second, the groups.  CI, MC&D, UIU, and Foundation are not a good combo for the church.  Besides the fact that almost all of them hate them, they would inhibit any RP potential, via raids.  Only good one is Sarkic, but even then, they'd only attack when needed, since they don't view church as a biblical enemy like the Church does.  So the Orthodoxy, fueled by their violence and fanaticism, would pretty much attack everyone 24/7.

Third, the amount of time Church has been done and the lack of originality.  Church has been on the server so many times, and this version is so generic, that it is almost indistinguishable from the first Orthodoxy.  It doesn't bring anything original to the table.  That is the only reason Maxwellist and Orthodoxy worked the first time, it was unique to most and new, with new RP potential.  As shown by both however, it falls into the same type of RP, and thus, doesn't work.

How could you fix this?  Well, you could make a new sect (just not united church its such a bad idea), or use one of the original 3 and make it different.  Or suggest another GOI.

Overall, wont work, and as a Professional CotBG and Sarkic critic, -1.

[Kinqu Kyle 190]

12 minutes ago, Atomik said:

First, im probably one of the most qualified to talk on this, as i've owned all 3 sects at one point

You legit killed the job so nah, by switching to maxwellists you knowlingly destroyed the group by making it the most inactvie one

13 minutes ago, Atomik said:

the amount of time Church has been done and the lack of originality

Same goes for Sarkics and UIU and also MCND but i dont see you crying about that

[Fixer 255]

18 hours ago, Bill Pill said:

I've been expanding my knowledge of church lore and I'm going to be inviting people at the start who can actually RP instead of just pew pew Foundation willy nilly 24/7. And yes I'll be getting people who know COTBG lore. If it actually does get accepted I would dedicate myself to keeping the group alive, good RP and also keeping it fun because having a mix of passive RP and combat RP is good in my opinion as it keeps a job fun for the members and fun to interact with as a non-member.

Okay so as per my promise. I am someone who has owned CotBG once, managed it twice and managed sarkics twice if I remember correctly. I've seen these groups be exceptional, good, average and bad. Lately CotBG and sarkic cult has just been bad in all of it's instances. When I made CotBG in V5 things were alright. Then I got lazy and gave it over to Poofer. Now while he tried to do his best and despite his interest for CotBG he didn't do too well and neither did the church. So first thing already here is knowing the lore as the owner isn't enough. You have to execute the church right or it will just flop. But since I don't know you that well I can't speak on your management skills so I will assume you can pull it off for the sake of it.

Next issue are the players. The church is a lore based group. It depends on the players to know the lore otherwise yes it will become another GOI like CI. I am not saying they have to read every single article but they have to know things that would be crucial to the history and future of the religion. That's how you make this GOI unique. But most people don't really care about the lore plus those that do then have to specifically be interested in CotBG lore. What has changed since the last churches? This was somewhat of a problem in my iteration of the church as well. People knew the basic shit but if you cannot hold a sermon that preaches something else besides the origin of humanity then it will become dull and repetitive. Do you really believe people have changed that much?

Next issue is the leadership activity. Okay assuming you have a vision and bypass the previous issue by having few select people as leadership who know the lore well and the rest of the members know the basics. In this case the church would depend highly on your activity and the leadership as well. The main issue today is not even the fact that people don't care that much about the lore. It's the lack of independence in the playerbase. Most groups in order to function properly need an active leadership upon which the players have grown dependent on and it's one of the reasons I got tired of doing CotBG. Without me or someone else the job was just empty. How long will you do the church and how long until you get tired of it, hand it of to someone else and it most likely flopping? I understand  by that logic we shouldn't try to make new RP groups at all but this just me looking from a pesimistic point where he gets tired of it somewhat quickly like a month or two lets say.

But okay let us pretend the church lasts few good months and is healthily active. The next issue I have is that you have chosen the Cogwork Orthodoxy. Now this is more of a ''lord nerd'' problem so it is probably one of my weakest points. Cogwork Orthodoxy is the most zealous and intolerant branch of the church. If you are telling me this won't be leaning towards the active RP side of things then you are not doing the Cogwork Orthodoxy. The so called United Church which really just IS the Church of the Broken God cannot be nearly the same compared to the Cogwork Orthodoxy.

Next thing and this is the one that I feel like is the real purpose this is a bad thread and shows how blind most of these +1 are. The fucking purpose. You say you will be the Cogwork Orthodoxy but where is the explanation of what that means in the server standards. I know what the Cogwork Orthodoxy is but I imagine others have a completely different interpretation. It explains nothing and only implies what it will be. Extremely vague and general. Even if it was going to be the same as the previous iteration of the group then maybe copy and paste it at the very fucking least. Really I don't get these +1. They are so mindless and are only +1 because people know Bill Pill knows the lore and is passionate about the group. It does not mean that is a good reason to have this RP group on the server as I have previously mentioned that is not enough.

My final point is the CotBG and Sarkic cult dynamic. It does not work lol. When I owned CotBG both groups were on the server. What happened is that people most likely had WLs for both of the groups because people who are interested in sarkicism often enjoy playing CotBG as well. Well what happened was that the Sarkic cult died out because CotBG was newer and fresher. People just played that.  But okay CotBG and the sarkic cult are being added nearly next to each other if this gets accepted. Well then what kind of interactions can we expect from both groups? Either just raids or both groups staying away from each other or just pure mingery. That's what happened in my time and recently I saw the current sarkic cult go to the church where I believe the CotBG were there because of an event or something? I don't know. Well what happened is that the sarkics acted like pretentious assholes, put up a sign saying ''flesh rules'' and pretty sure one sarkic said he would pay a citizen if he took a dump on the floor. Honestly mindless raids sounds better than that. Then the sarkics told the cops there was a bomb in the church and you get the point. I will give props to CotBG event players for managing to remain passive through that ordeal but you get my point.

I have nothing against Bill Pill but every single fucking CotBG and Sarkic owner say that ''he will do it right and better because he actually knows the lore''. It is the same fucking reasoning to why it will work this time. I am sorry but I have heard it enough times to know it is complete bullshit. I could make more points but I believe I made enough.

If the church does get made I do wish Bill the best of luck with it and only hope he succeeds rather than fails despite my negativity here. I will only be happy to have him prove me wrong.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Fixer

[Bill Pill 87]

13 hours ago, Billy Glen said:

-1 

i love the idea of 2 opposing sides on the surface, but the surface is going to become a fuck fest with CI,MC&D,UIU,Sarkic and COTBG these are too many GOIs  on surface were its going to be fight all the time people raiding and don't forget about civs while MC&D that's basically a GOI by it self so that's why i will give it a -1 

There's been more GOIs than this in previous versions I believe and adding one more GOI into the mix couldn't hurt which would make sense with the current setup of GOIs ( mainly with sarkics being on the server). Sarkics, COTBG, TCS and CI. All these were on the server all at the same time once, also keep in mind that at the time of these GOIs being around CI was fully WL, Most of TCS was whitelisted, Sarkics was fully WL and COTBG was almost fully WL. Also GOIs don't always fight each other and this would be a GOI similar to the current sarkics that actually interacts with civilians (things like COTBG preaching to civilians, converting and sarkics sacrificing, setting up shops etc. If you're worried about this Church raiding Foundation 24/7 I've already said before that I'll be trying to limit combat as much as I possibly can without making it too boring or too passive where some people just wouldn't find it fun preaching all day. If you have any other complaints about the job go ahead and send them and I'll try to reply to most of them.

[Mr Denny 50]

+1 add it pls even tho it might just be for another couple of months i dont see why it shouldn't be added for the sake of the sarkics activity kicking back up 

[Mark Kuntson 178]

+1

Talked with Bill, he seemed to have a solution for almost every issue I stated before. I agree that the group should be added.

[brainzzzzzzzzzzz[W-G] 12]

+1 surface been to quiet, need war

[Marc Pierson 4]

Surface's quite uneventful, so this might bring some more RP onto the surface. And i kinda Sarkics and Church to go in a war. 

And Even better Bill's the owner all of this. and Birds are KOS if they talk so yes.
Only problem is that what Fixer said convinced me that this may not me a very good idea since it may end flopping like Maxwellist Church

Neutral/+1

Edited March 11, 2021 by Marc Pierson

[Jason Ray 82]

Or Foundation just does their job of containment and actually does shit instead of cowering from CI.

[covid-20 64]

ahhhh memories

as much as I believe CoTBG is the bread and butter of SCP lore, it just doesn't work on SCP RP. Everyone says its the fault of the playerbase, but it isn't - the group is just too boring to do - there's too many limits.

I mean sure, you can make cog statues, praise mekhane or WAN or whatever the fuck you wanna label him as, no matter which sect, you'll end up reaching a brick wall.

You have players who spend hours reading the lore, like myself, and just run out of ideas. We did all sorts in my Cogwork Orthodoxy, from building bases, raiding foundation, creating wars with IJAMEA (hehe) and other numerous GOIs, building statues, publishing lore in the discord, and then after about a month and a half, the group went inactive.

I know I'll get replies saying "Yeah but you abandoned it lolololol!", but while I did give ownerships to other people, I still observed the group, and I was the one still trying to get changes. 

Maybe you can do better Bill, but I doubt it, no offense. (nothing on you, just many have tried, and all have failed).

Perhaps CoTBG could work with a GOI rotation, or something, but it heavily relies on sarkics to function, if sarkics die, this dies too, and probably vice versa.

Sorry Bill

-1 

edit: also I ignored Fixer too, when he told me "don't suggest CoTBG, it will die" (obviously in more detail), I was like, nahhh it'll be fine, and exactly what Fixer said would happen, ended up happening.

Good luck. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by covid-20

[Fixer 255]

1 hour ago, covid-20 said:

ahhhh memories

as much as I believe CoTBG is the bread and butter of SCP lore, it just doesn't work on SCP RP. Everyone says its the fault of the playerbase, but it isn't - the group is just too boring to do - there's too many limits.

I mean sure, you can make cog statues, praise mekhane or WAN or whatever the fuck you wanna label him as, no matter which sect, you'll end up reaching a brick wall.

You have players who spend hours reading the lore, like myself, and just run out of ideas. We did all sorts in my Cogwork Orthodoxy, from building bases, raiding foundation, creating wars with IJAMEA (hehe) and other numerous GOIs, building statues, publishing lore in the discord, and then after about a month and a half, the group went inactive.

I know I'll get replies saying "Yeah but you abandoned it lolololol!", but while I did give ownerships to other people, I still observed the group, and I was the one still trying to get changes. 

Maybe you can do better Bill, but I doubt it, no offense. (nothing on you, just many have tried, and all have failed).

Perhaps CoTBG could work with a GOI rotation, or something, but it heavily relies on sarkics to function, if sarkics die, this dies too, and probably vice versa.

Sorry Bill

-1 

edit: also I ignored Fixer too, when he told me "don't suggest CoTBG, it will die" (obviously in more detail), I was like, nahhh it'll be fine, and exactly what Fixer said would happen, ended up happening.

Good luck. 

Just to leave a comment on this. CotBG can work and I have proof for that. V2 CotBG only died because the owner sold the group (because he went off to make his own gmod thing) and the new owners changed the group despite it still being the most active group on the server mainly because they just wanted to do their own little selfish thing. So no it's not true that it relies on Sarkics because I think it was a year before I helped make the first sarkic cult for the server and it does not always have to die due to inactivity as the group lasted I think a year if not longer. Knowing the lore is not enough. One of the reasons I believe CotBG worked in V2 was the forced limitations that furthered creativity. For example Maxwellists had a terrible loadout and the surface was a snowy wasteland. But because of these limitations we had to come up with ideas on how to make the job fun for ourselves. It is why I fucking despised the addition of the construct when I gave off CotBG to Poofer. I wanted the group to mimic the limitations to force creative solutions on people. And chasing after the combat meta ruined all of it. Then again I doubt the creativity of the remaining people on the server. It's a rude assumption to make but I do believe SWEPs have changed that a lot and it's something that can't really be undone.

In short CotBG can work but only if the people are willing to give up their precious SWEPs and use their creativity. It's not just the problem with CotBG but with other jobs as well.

[Kinqu Kyle 190]

1 hour ago, Benny Wickers said:

this thread died

Yes

[Linko881 15]

+Funny Church w/ having to express their religion with cogs on every surface.

-Rapes Sarkics like the UIU, Foundation & more have been doing.

-Doesn't have the best chemistry with the current GOI state

+Will get Sarkics & COTBG active like a week maybe

+Good choice of management

+/-Might be a bit aids with Sarkics vs COTBG with the mixture of UIU, CI & more + if Bob Curtis decides he wants to fuck foundation and surface as mayor.

 

fuck it +1

 

Spoiler

 

also

On 3/3/2021 at 9:44 PM, Bill Pill said:

Another reason is to counter the newly arrived sarkics.

We not gonna act like every single surface job has already been doing this?

 

 

[Matthew Wickers 52]

I revive this Thread

[Bill Pill 87]

Also if you have any questions about the future of this group or how it will work on the server feel free to DM me on Discord (Captain Brexit#7728)

[Brandon Viper 25]

+1 I've been getting into COTBG lore a lot more and I REALLY want to do some stuff involving them on the server. I know and trust bill(not cause of a promised private tryout) cause he's been in management and high up positions in previous COTBG groups on the server and know that he'll try and steer it in the right direction this time.

[Kinqu Kyle 190]

SMT ignoring COTBG thread part 17:

[Xunt 565]

Denied

Literally the only ''RP'' that happens between Sarkics and Church is them shooting eachother. Cogwork has failed in all it's past iterations (And I mean actually failed as in dead on arrival, not died after 3 months after healthy activity) and I certainly do not trust you to keep this from flopping immediately.